Discussion:
World's first 'Galatiel' - this is very cool...
(too old to reply)
Phil D.
2006-04-07 10:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Male galah successfully breeds with a female cockatiel in Australia.

http://www.talkingbirds.com.au/worldfirst.php

Video included, for the skeptical. What a beautiful little bird -
first of its kind in the world apparently...
Geopelia
2006-04-10 12:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil D.
Male galah successfully breeds with a female cockatiel in Australia.
http://www.talkingbirds.com.au/worldfirst.php
Video included, for the skeptical. What a beautiful little bird -
first of its kind in the world apparently...
The difference in size does not seem to be a big problem for birds as it
would be for mammals. Mating would be difficult, but quite possible. The hen
controls the size of the egg, so egg laying wouldn't be a problem.

I wonder how the developing chick fits into the small egg, though. Perhaps
the smaller yolk keeps its size down.

My diamond dove hen x peaceful dove cock hybrid lived for 16 years and
fostered many dove chicks. I also have a pigeon x laceneck dove mated to a
ringneck dove hen, but I don't think that cross is fertile. (They live and
nest wild.)
One of my free-range ringneck dove cocks must have mated with a feral
laceneck hen, as a hybrid turned up in the garden. They are almost the same
size though.

I wonder if the galatiel will be fertile with either of the parent species.
I doubt it though.

Geopelia (New Zealand)
Phil D.
2006-04-11 08:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geopelia
The difference in size does not seem to be a big problem for birds as it
would be for mammals. Mating would be difficult, but quite possible. The hen
controls the size of the egg, so egg laying wouldn't be a problem.
I wonder how the developing chick fits into the small egg, though. Perhaps
the smaller yolk keeps its size down.
The Galah isn't actually that much bigger than a cockatiel when all's
said and done (I know someone who has both myself) - it's a bit
bulkier, certainly (and 'fluffier', which makes it look bigger too)
but not really that much longer. I doubt that the size difference
would even be apparent in the newly-hatched chicks.

Do you think that the hybrid would've looked different if the parents
had been a male cockatiel and a female galah (more cockatiel-shaped
for instance)? I'm not really sure how the different species'
characteristics are passed down WRT cross-breeding.
Post by Geopelia
My diamond dove hen x peaceful dove cock hybrid lived for 16 years and
fostered many dove chicks. I also have a pigeon x laceneck dove mated to a
ringneck dove hen, but I don't think that cross is fertile. (They live and
nest wild.)
One of my free-range ringneck dove cocks must have mated with a feral
laceneck hen, as a hybrid turned up in the garden. They are almost the same
size though.
I wonder if the galatiel will be fertile with either of the parent species.
I doubt it though.
I've often wondered if the hybrid gulls that're reported on the gull
mailing list I'm subscribed to are fertile. There seems to be a hell
of a lot of them around if the 'spotters' are to be believed (by the
looks of things, it seems that any species of large white-headed gull
can breed with any other).

Anyone have any info on budgerigar hybrids, btw? I remember reading
that someone had successfully crossed one with a bourkes' parakeet but
I can't find the page now.
Geopelia
2006-04-11 12:47:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil D.
Post by Geopelia
The difference in size does not seem to be a big problem for birds as it
would be for mammals. Mating would be difficult, but quite possible. The hen
controls the size of the egg, so egg laying wouldn't be a problem.
I wonder how the developing chick fits into the small egg, though. Perhaps
the smaller yolk keeps its size down.
The Galah isn't actually that much bigger than a cockatiel when all's
said and done (I know someone who has both myself) - it's a bit
bulkier, certainly (and 'fluffier', which makes it look bigger too)
but not really that much longer. I doubt that the size difference
would even be apparent in the newly-hatched chicks.
Do you think that the hybrid would've looked different if the parents
had been a male cockatiel and a female galah (more cockatiel-shaped
for instance)? I'm not really sure how the different species'
characteristics are passed down WRT cross-breeding.
Post by Geopelia
My diamond dove hen x peaceful dove cock hybrid lived for 16 years and
fostered many dove chicks. I also have a pigeon x laceneck dove mated to a
ringneck dove hen, but I don't think that cross is fertile. (They live and
nest wild.)
One of my free-range ringneck dove cocks must have mated with a feral
laceneck hen, as a hybrid turned up in the garden. They are almost the same
size though.
I wonder if the galatiel will be fertile with either of the parent species.
I doubt it though.
I've often wondered if the hybrid gulls that're reported on the gull
mailing list I'm subscribed to are fertile. There seems to be a hell
of a lot of them around if the 'spotters' are to be believed (by the
looks of things, it seems that any species of large white-headed gull
can breed with any other).
Anyone have any info on budgerigar hybrids, btw? I remember reading
that someone had successfully crossed one with a bourkes' parakeet but
I can't find the page now.
As for the male cockatiel and the female galah, I suspect the cockatiel
would be too intimidated to try to mate.

I don't know about the gulls, but they may be like doves, and able to
hybridize easily. Most of the Streptopelia doves hybridize, as doves have a
strong breeding urge and a female may be mated by a bird other than her
partner. The domestic ringneck dove is a man-made species from hybridizing,
like the Bengalese Finch. The Red Canary was also produced from a hybrid.

Lovebirds and finches should not be kept with closely related species, as
they may produce fertile hybrids and the pure breeds may be lost.
Phil D.
2006-04-12 00:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geopelia
As for the male cockatiel and the female galah, I suspect the cockatiel
would be too intimidated to try to mate.
I don't know about the gulls, but they may be like doves, and able to
hybridize easily.
Yeah - most of the large gulls are very closely related. You can
actually trace the recent evolution of the herring gull into the
lesser black-backed gull as it spread eastwards from Western Europe,
through Eurasia and all the way around the world. By the time that
'herring gulls' from North America reached europe, they were a
significantly different bird.

There is some controversy as to whether the HG, the LBBG and all the
intermediate subspecies should actually be classed as a single
species, as AFAIK they can all still breed with each other.
Post by Geopelia
Most of the Streptopelia doves hybridize, as doves have a
strong breeding urge and a female may be mated by a bird other than her
partner. The domestic ringneck dove is a man-made species from hybridizing,
like the Bengalese Finch. The Red Canary was also produced from a hybrid.
We call ringneck doves 'collared doves' in the UK. I had no idea it
was a manmade species - they're pretty much part of the furniture here
(some non-bird-people call them 'cuckoos') and have perhaps the most
annoying call of any bird I know...
Post by Geopelia
Lovebirds and finches should not be kept with closely related species, as
they may produce fertile hybrids and the pure breeds may be lost.
Ever hear the urban legend about cats being able to cross-breed with
rabbits? I've met quite a few people who still think that one's true
and that the Manx cat is an example of such a hybrid (which, to be
fair to them does look and move like a rabbit with a feline head)...
Jerry Avins
2006-04-12 00:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Phil D. wrote:

...
Post by Phil D.
Ever hear the urban legend about cats being able to cross-breed with
rabbits? I've met quite a few people who still think that one's true
and that the Manx cat is an example of such a hybrid (which, to be
fair to them does look and move like a rabbit with a feline head)...
I don't see why it cant be true. After all, jackrabbits sometimes cross
with antelope. Loading Image... ;^)

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Geopelia
2006-04-12 12:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil D.
Post by Geopelia
As for the male cockatiel and the female galah, I suspect the cockatiel
would be too intimidated to try to mate.
I don't know about the gulls, but they may be like doves, and able to
hybridize easily.
Yeah - most of the large gulls are very closely related. You can
actually trace the recent evolution of the herring gull into the
lesser black-backed gull as it spread eastwards from Western Europe,
through Eurasia and all the way around the world. By the time that
'herring gulls' from North America reached europe, they were a
significantly different bird.
There is some controversy as to whether the HG, the LBBG and all the
intermediate subspecies should actually be classed as a single
species, as AFAIK they can all still breed with each other.
Post by Geopelia
Most of the Streptopelia doves hybridize, as doves have a
strong breeding urge and a female may be mated by a bird other than her
partner. The domestic ringneck dove is a man-made species from
hybridizing,
like the Bengalese Finch. The Red Canary was also produced from a hybrid.
We call ringneck doves 'collared doves' in the UK. I had no idea it
was a manmade species - they're pretty much part of the furniture here
(some non-bird-people call them 'cuckoos') and have perhaps the most
annoying call of any bird I know...
The ringneck dove (Barbary Dove) is different from the Collared Dove that
has recently spread into Britain and other countries. There are difference
in plumage and the call is quite different. The Collared Dove and Ringneck
Dove could probably produce fertile hybrids. The Collared Dove is a wild
shy bird. The ringneck is a domesticated bird produced centuries ago by
human breeding. It is naturally tame and makes a great pet, especially the
white variety, and now comes in many colours. The fawn variety is the best
known.
Google Streptopelia "Streptopelia Doves" there is a good site.
Post by Phil D.
Post by Geopelia
Lovebirds and finches should not be kept with closely related species, as
they may produce fertile hybrids and the pure breeds may be lost.
Ever hear the urban legend about cats being able to cross-breed with
rabbits? I've met quite a few people who still think that one's true
and that the Manx cat is an example of such a hybrid (which, to be
fair to them does look and move like a rabbit with a feline head)...
The legend goes, years ago Manx warriors used to decorate their helmets with
cats' tails, Davy Crockett style. So to save their kittens' lives, the
mother cats used to bite off their tails until the breed became tailless.
Ridiculous of course!

Geopelia
John F. Carr
2006-04-12 18:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil D.
Post by Geopelia
As for the male cockatiel and the female galah, I suspect the cockatiel
would be too intimidated to try to mate.
I don't know about the gulls, but they may be like doves, and able to
hybridize easily.
Yeah - most of the large gulls are very closely related. You can
actually trace the recent evolution of the herring gull into the
lesser black-backed gull as it spread eastwards from Western Europe,
through Eurasia and all the way around the world. By the time that
'herring gulls' from North America reached europe, they were a
significantly different bird.
The range of the Eurasian Red Squirrel (Sciurus vulgaris)
extends 5,000 miles. One study found that the Japanese
squirrel (S. lis) is more closely related to the Japanese
subspecies of the red squirrel than the Japanese red squirrel
is related to the subspecies found in Western Europe.

(Based on pictures I have seen, "red" squirrels in the Far East
are dark grey.)

There is a concept in biology called a "speciation ring",
where animals migrating around a natural obstacle evolve
gradually along the way and end up being unable to interbreed
with the original population once they finish the circle.
There is no point along the way where you can draw a line
between species or subspecies.
--
John Carr (***@mit.edu)
Loading...