"Horaltic"

[j***@yahoo.com]

I recently came across the phrase "horaltic pose", meaning a pose with
spread wings as assumed by vultures, storks, cormorants, etc. It's on
the Web, as at <http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.html>, but
there are no hits at Google Scholar, Google Books, or Amazon, and it's
not in any dictionary I've looked at.

Is this an error for "heraldic"?

If not, does anyone know its origin?

Does anyone have an ornithological dictionary, such as /A Dictionary
of Birds/ by Campbell and Lack, and can do me the favor of looking up
"horaltic"?

Thanks in advance.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Avins]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I recently came across the phrase "horaltic pose", meaning a pose with
spread wings as assumed by vultures, storks, cormorants, etc. It's on
the Web, as at <http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.html>, but
there are no hits at Google Scholar, Google Books, or Amazon, and it's
not in any dictionary I've looked at.
Is this an error for "heraldic"?

It almost certainly is.

Post by j***@yahoo.com
If not, does anyone know its origin?

Why not ask the site's webmaster?

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Does anyone have an ornithological dictionary, such as /A Dictionary
of Birds/ by Campbell and Lack, and can do me the favor of looking up
"horaltic"?

It's not in the OED. In any case, "horal" means "pertaining to [the] hours.

Jerry

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Jerry Avins

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I recently came across the phrase "horaltic pose", meaning a pose with
spread wings as assumed by vultures, storks, cormorants, etc. It's on
the Web, as at <http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.html>, but
there are no hits at Google Scholar, Google Books, or Amazon, and it's
not in any dictionary I've looked at.
Is this an error for "heraldic"?

It almost certainly is.

Post by j***@yahoo.com
If not, does anyone know its origin?

Why not ask the site's webmaster?

Maybe I should, though I was pretty sure "horaltic" was a mistake and
was hoping for some evidence that I could present to that person.
...

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul_Morphy]

The word stems from "horal," meaning "of or pertaining to the hours,
marking the hours."

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0006586.html

So 'horaltic' implies the wings held out like the hands of an (analog!)
clock.

Cheers,

Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos at http://art.kearman.com/

[Jerry Avins]

Post by Paul_Morphy
The word stems from "horal," meaning "of or pertaining to the hours,
marking the hours."
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0006586.html
So 'horaltic' implies the wings held out like the hands of an (analog!)
clock.

I think that's forced. "Heraldic" would refer to the usages of heraldry,
the classification of coats of arms and such If one doesn't know the
specific heraldic name for a pose -- rampant, couchant, salient, etc. --
one uses "heraldic" as a catch-all. What is the heraldic description of
the Anheuser-Bush and Yuengling eagle poses? I think it's "displayed".
Numismatics is full of referenced to heraldic eagles. Why not a heraldic
vulture?

Jerry

[Paul_Morphy]

Post by Jerry Avins
Why not a heraldic
vulture?

Dunno that I'd want a vulture on my coat of arms, but heraldic poses are
not necesarily spread-winged. From the looking around I did, they refer
to any animal posing on a coat of arms. But horaltic poses refer
specifically to vultures spreading their wings. An example of a turkey
vulture in horaltic pose on Wikipedia.
Loading Image...

If you search for 'heraldic "pose" ' on
http://www.mad-alchemy.com/hsc/tress1.htm you'll see a different
interpretation.

I suppose in the case of the Anheuser-Busch logo, the eagle's pose could
be both horaltic and heraldic!

Bottoms up!

Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos at http://art.kearman.com/

[Jerry Avins]

Post by Paul_Morphy

Why not a heraldic vulture?

Dunno that I'd want a vulture on my coat of arms, but heraldic poses are
not necesarily spread-winged. From the looking around I did, they refer
to any animal posing on a coat of arms. But horaltic poses refer
specifically to vultures spreading their wings. An example of a turkey
vulture in horaltic pose on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Turkey_vulture_Bluff.jpg
If you search for 'heraldic "pose" ' on
http://www.mad-alchemy.com/hsc/tress1.htm you'll see a different
interpretation.
I suppose in the case of the Anheuser-Busch logo, the eagle's pose could
be both horaltic and heraldic!
Bottoms up!

Odd, then, that the OED should omit the word. I'm always glad to learn a
new word. When it's one the OED doesn't have, well, WOW!

Jerry

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Paul_Morphy
The word stems from "horal," meaning "of or pertaining to the hours,
marking the hours."
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d...
So 'horaltic' implies the wings held out like the hands of an (analog!)
clock.

Do you have some documentation for that, or does it just seem like a
reasonable interpretation to you?

I must say I doubt it because "tic" is a very odd suffix--"ic" would
make more sense--and anyway there's no need for an adjective suffix on
"horal", which is already an adjective.

I admire that game you played in the opera box, by the way.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul_Morphy]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Do you have some documentation for that, or does it just seem like a
reasonable interpretation to you?

If by documentation you mean a dictionary entry, no. But common usage is
"horaltic." I've never seen a vulture's wings-spread display described
as "heraldic."

As for the OED, maybe British vultures are more discreet and only air
their wings in private.

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I admire that game you played in the opera box, by the way.

:)

Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos at http://art.kearman.com/

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Paul_Morphy

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Do you have some documentation for that, or does it just seem like a
reasonable interpretation to you?

If by documentation you mean a dictionary entry, no. But common usage is
"horaltic."

What I was asking for documentation about is the derivation from
"horal".

If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists? (I've never heard it that I can remember.)

Post by Paul_Morphy
I've never seen a vulture's wings-spread display described
as "heraldic."

You can find it on the Web, though it's not as common as "horaltic".

Post by Paul_Morphy
As for the OED, maybe British vultures are more discreet and only air
their wings in private.

"Horaltic" isn't in American dictionaries either.
...

Post by Paul_Morphy
Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos athttp://art.kearman.com/

Now that you mention it, some of my Kenyan bird photos (and a few
token mammal photos) are at http://geraldfriedman.tripod.com

--
Jerry Friedman

[Cheryl Isaak]

On 11/6/07 6:18 PM, in article

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Paul_Morphy

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Do you have some documentation for that, or does it just seem like a
reasonable interpretation to you?

If by documentation you mean a dictionary entry, no. But common usage is
"horaltic."

What I was asking for documentation about is the derivation from
"horal".
If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists? (I've never heard it that I can remember.)

Post by Paul_Morphy
I've never seen a vulture's wings-spread display described
as "heraldic."

You can find it on the Web, though it's not as common as "horaltic".

Post by Paul_Morphy
As for the OED, maybe British vultures are more discreet and only air
their wings in private.

"Horaltic" isn't in American dictionaries either.
...

I've gone and checked my Webster's 1925 edition dictionary. (Got it for
graduation gift from college from a friend that knew my love of books and
dictionaries.) Not there either. Horal - describes something that happens
hourly or for an hour or a short duration. "certain summer fruits" are horal
fruits. Nothing about birds.

C

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Cheryl Isaak
On 11/6/07 6:18 PM, in article

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Paul_Morphy

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Do you have some documentation for that, or does it just seem like a
reasonable interpretation to you?

If by documentation you mean a dictionary entry, no. But common usage is
"horaltic."

What I was asking for documentation about is the derivation from
"horal".
If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists? (I've never heard it that I can remember.)

Post by Paul_Morphy
I've never seen a vulture's wings-spread display described
as "heraldic."

You can find it on the Web, though it's not as common as "horaltic".

Post by Paul_Morphy
As for the OED, maybe British vultures are more discreet and only air
their wings in private.

"Horaltic" isn't in American dictionaries either.
...

I've gone and checked my Webster's 1925 edition dictionary. (Got it for
graduation gift from college from a friend that knew my love of books and
dictionaries.) Not there either. Horal - describes something that happens
hourly or for an hour or a short duration. "certain summer fruits" are horal
fruits. Nothing about birds.

Thanks!

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul_Morphy]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists?

I found the usage by a biologist in a print medium. From the June 4,
2007 _The Recorder_, a Virginia newspaper:

"MONTEREY - 'Turkey vultures and black vultures are kind of the Rodney
Dangerfield of the bird world. They don't get any respect,' said Keith
Carson, a retired biologist currently working as a field representative
for The Nature Conservancy, and is the newly elected president of the
Bath-Highland Bird Club.

"Have you ever seen a vulture sitting on fence or a tree limb, its wings
spread as if it were drying itself in the sun? Well, it's doing just
that. The posture is called the horaltic pose, said Carson."

http://www.therecorderonline.com/News/2007/0604/News/1035.html

Back to the Web, the Turkey Vulture Society, "a non-profit scientific
corporation [whose] purpose is to promote scientific study of the life
habits and needs of the Turkey Vulture, to protect the vulture and its
habitat, and to inform the public of the valuable and essential services
this bird provides to us and to the environment," has a photo page
(http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/Photos.html) with a caption reading
"Turkey Vultures are often seen standing in a spread-winged stance.
This is called the 'horaltic pose.'"

Rather than sic the spam vultures on the Society, I'll use this link:
http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.html At the bottom of the
page is a contact email address and phone number. Let us know what you
find out.

Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos at http://art.kearman.com/

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Paul_Morphy

Post by j***@yahoo.com
If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists?

I found the usage by a biologist in a print medium. From the June 4,
"MONTEREY - 'Turkey vultures and black vultures are kind of the Rodney
Dangerfield of the bird world. They don't get any respect,' said Keith
Carson, a retired biologist currently working as a field representative
for The Nature Conservancy, and is the newly elected president of the
Bath-Highland Bird Club.
"Have you ever seen a vulture sitting on fence or a tree limb, its wings
spread as if it were drying itself in the sun? Well, it's doing just
that. The posture is called the horaltic pose, said Carson."
http://www.therecorderonline.com/News/2007/0604/News/1035.html

The print part doesn't interest me that much, as newspapers don't
consistently check the facts in bird articles, but the biologist part
definitely does. Thanks!

Post by Paul_Morphy
Back to the Web, the Turkey Vulture Society, "a non-profit scientific
corporation [whose] purpose is to promote scientific study of the life
habits and needs of the Turkey Vulture, to protect the vulture and its
habitat, and to inform the public of the valuable and essential services
this bird provides to us and to the environment," has a photo page
(http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/Photos.html) with a caption reading
"Turkey Vultures are often seen standing in a spread-winged stance.
This is called the 'horaltic pose.'"

I mentioned their site in my initial post. I think that site has had
a lot to do with spreading this term, correct or not.

Post by Paul_Morphy
Rather than sic the spam vultures on the Society, I'll use this link:http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.htmlAt the bottom of the
page is a contact email address and phone number.

If the address is on their page, the spam vultures have already
feasted.

Post by Paul_Morphy
Let us know what you find out.

I've already mentioned why I didn't want to do that, but I'm running
out of options. ORNITH-L seems to be defunct, and BIRDCHAT-L has a
two-week waiting period before you can post and may not be the right
place anyway. Whenever I get an answer from the Vulture Society, I'll
certainly mention it here and in the other newsgroups where I've asked
about this.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Rick]

Post by Paul_Morphy

Post by j***@yahoo.com
If you don't mind more questions, where is that common usage, aside
from the Web? Random people in your neighborhood, birders,
ornithologists?

I found the usage by a biologist in a print medium. From the June 4,
"MONTEREY - 'Turkey vultures and black vultures are kind of the Rodney
Dangerfield of the bird world. They don't get any respect,' said Keith
Carson, a retired biologist currently working as a field representative
for The Nature Conservancy, and is the newly elected president of the
Bath-Highland Bird Club.
"Have you ever seen a vulture sitting on fence or a tree limb, its wings
spread as if it were drying itself in the sun? Well, it's doing just
that. The posture is called the horaltic pose, said Carson."
http://www.therecorderonline.com/News/2007/0604/News/1035.html
Back to the Web, the Turkey Vulture Society, "a non-profit scientific
corporation [whose] purpose is to promote scientific study of the life
habits and needs of the Turkey Vulture, to protect the vulture and its
habitat, and to inform the public of the valuable and essential services
this bird provides to us and to the environment," has a photo page
(http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/Photos.html) with a caption reading
"Turkey Vultures are often seen standing in a spread-winged stance. This
is called the 'horaltic pose.'"
http://vulturesociety.homestead.com/TVFacts.html At the bottom of the
page is a contact email address and phone number. Let us know what you
find out.
Jim, Stuart, FL
some bird photos at http://art.kearman.com/

This pose is very common. I have seen it many times in West Marin
County CA.
--
Rick
Fargo, ND
N 46°53.251"
W 096°48.279"

Remember the USS Liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org/
http://picasaweb.google.com/PaWalleye/NebraskaBirds
http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N00/

[Jerry Avins]

Rick wrote:

...

Post by Rick
This pose is very common. I have seen it many times in West Marin
County CA.

The pose may be common, but how about the word itself?

Jerry

[Rick]

Post by Jerry Avins
...

Post by Rick
This pose is very common. I have seen it many times in West Marin
County CA.

The pose may be common, but how about the word itself?
Jerry

the term is not one I had heard before so I do not think it to be
common. There are probably a lot of birding terms that I am ignorant
about though.
--
Rick
Fargo, ND
N 46°53.251"
W 096°48.279"

Remember the USS Liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org/
http://picasaweb.google.com/PaWalleye/NebraskaBirds
http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N00/